A brood comb

….philosophical and other notes….

Am I a Product of my Imagination?

Posted by Tanas Gjorgoski on March 11, 2008

I bought a Nintendo Wii gaming console few weeks ago, and both me and my family (kids and wife) have spend good time playing Wii sports (especially Tennis, though lately I find Bowling Training mini-game with obstacles very challanging). So, I thought I buy some new game for the Wii, and went to Amazon.de. I usually shop Amazon.com for books, but Wii games are region specific, so if you have an European Wii, you need to buy European versions of the games. I added one game to the shopping basket, and went to the check out, but there it said that they don’t send games to the place where I live. Which is this place? Well, it is a state, which lot of people refer to as Macedonia, lot of people refer to by FYROM. It is the Republic Whatchyamacallit.

Why Watchyamacallit? I guess you’ve heard about the problem with this state’s name already. The short story is that its name and the name for the people here came century or two ago from the name of the territory on part of which it resides. And the territory is called Macedonia. HOWEVER another part of the territory called Macedonia is in Greece, and a small part in Bulgaria. And Greece doesn’t like that we (that are ethnic Slavs) call this country Republic of Macedonia, and ourselves Macedonians, as those were the names for the ancient Macedonians, and ancient Macedonia belongs to the Greek cultural history. So, now we are under pressure to call ourselves differently. I was thinking about this, and I concluded that probably in Greece no two people share the same name, and that’s why some of them find this confusing. But anyway that is another weird story, which in this few last months includes a treat from Greece to stop Macedonia entry into NATO unless the name issue is solved (read – that we agree to change our name). The bad thing is that given the ethnic tensions in the region, entering the NATO is expected to give an assurance to prospective foreign investors, so we would really like to enter NATO. This is whatchyamacallit – “blackmail” maybe?

Anyway, back to the story… I wasn’t too surprised that Amazon doesn’t deliver to Macedonia. I searched for other sites that sell games, and found Gameseek. Macedonia wasn’t in the list there, even they say that they deliver to UK and Europe. Now, this ‘Europe’ can’t mean European Union, as they deliver to countries like Ukraine and Croatia which are not part of the union too. So, it appears, this place where I live – the Republic Whatchyamacallit isn’t on the continent where it should be. And that is where I started to suspect a possible Matrix scenario. Well, just that here not just that the things you thought are real are not real, but the names of those unreal things don’t mean those things also!

So, I sent an email to the Gameseek, asking them if it is possible to buy a game from here, and they said it is, just that I need to open PayPal account, and then send them an email, and they will process the order manually. I didn’t quite like that, but it sounded better than nothing, and a new game would make my kids happy (not to mention me and my wife). So, I went to PayPal. And there my suspicions that I am just a product of my imagination were confirmed. There is a hundreds of countries there, but Macedonia is nowhere on the list. Nor FYROM. So, no new game for me for the time being. Though, I start to feel some strange urge to install a mod chip in the Wii, so I could just download “backups” for games I don’t own, and play the backups until there is possibility to buy the originals.

Advertisements

13 Responses to “Am I a Product of my Imagination?”

  1. Reality Hurts said

    Welcome to reality kid. So far you’ve been living in the “Matrix”. You have been taught a lie. Unfortunately for you there is no Macedonian ethnicity. The only real Macedonians have greek origin. All the ancient findings in Pela have greek writings on them. Your language is a Bulgarian dialect. Ask your grandma, she probably knows better. Life is a bitch and you’ve just started to realize it…

  2. Reality Hurts 2 said

    And of course Amazon does not ship in “Macedonia” because this country does not exist…

  3. I didn’t think that there will be discussion on this post, but if it will be, let me just ask for respectful and tolerant discussion of the issues.

    First, what is wrong with two different people sharing same name? Like, there are lot of people that share the same name, e.g. John in the world. We happen to be Slavs that get to settle on a territory called Macedonia, and ended up calling ourselves Macedonians. So, what is the problem with that? What is the problem same name being shared by two or more entities? And there is also a city called Macedonia, in Ohio, US. That two people use the same name, doesn’t mean that they are the same person. So, we are not of course the same folks as the ancient Macedonians, nor with current Greeks that live in Macedonia, Greece, nor we are the same people who live in that city in Ohio, USA. But it so happens that we use the same name.

    Secondly, not sure what is the issue with there not being Macedonian ethnicity. Surely if there are people that feel like belonging to specific ethnicity, who speak language with its own grammatic and words (people here have problems understanding Bulgarian for example, though of course, they can easily learn the language as they have same root), and if this folks have a separate history from other nations for a few centuries, than what more is needed? People here don’t feel neither Bulgarian, nor Greek, nor Serbian. And for the record, I did have grandparents, and they didn’t feel neither of those either.

    BTW, Amazon does ship to Macedonia, but just books.

    Just to repeat, please just comments which are respectful to others.

  4. macedonas said

    We do not object to the use of “Macedonia” in Ohio, in fact we are flattered by the fact that other people, want to honor us by using our name for their cities. Our feelings towards YOU are different because your intention is not to “honor” but to use the term iligitemely. You want to forge a fake identity. You want to steal the name and turn it into something it is not. And I think you have truly accomplished your task. I am now convinced that the world does not give a damn about what is true and what is false, what is original and what is a fake. So victory is yours or so you think…..
    As far as getting Wii games shipped to your place, may I suggest that you use similar tactics those you used in your primary objective. Why not name a small town of yours “Wii” and then perhaps maybe, you can confuse the parent company of the makers of the game to ship the games there. It is not an unrealistic objective, afterall, you have already pulled off a more impressive forgery.

  5. That is true that we didn’t get the name to honor ancient Macedonians. And really, I didn’t choose it, I was born into the society in which my parents and my grandparents called themselves so. Like I already have a personal name, which I was given by my parents, and which I didn’t choose. And those older generations didn’t choose their name also (to honor ancient Macedonians or to mock Greeks, nor for any such reason), they happened to be there on the territory of Macedonia, in a singular position where they didn’t squarely belong into any of the neighboring nations, and the “Macedonian issue” appeared of the status of those folks there. That is not “forged identity”. It is just turn of events in which a particular group of people, end up being called somehow, and call themselves somehow.

    Again, the name issue is not same there as the identity issue here, at least not when the identity of people who are not related to us, like ancient Macedonians and todays Greek Macedonians. Two things can share same name, without being the same thing. So, we are not same as ancient Macedonians, nor we are same with today Greeks which live in Macedonia, North Greece. So, I don’t feel like I’m forging any identity by just using the name which my parents and grandparents used to refer to themselves. It is that identity which is of importance to us – the relation to the people who fought in WW2, WW1 and against the Ottoman empire before that, and which also didn’t think of the ancient Macedonians when they were fighting for having nation of their own.

    BTW, as for the Wii games, I found that the Greek company Germanos actually sells few titles for it in it’s stores.

  6. macedonas said

    The fact that your parents and your grandparents have used the name does not make it legitimate for you to use it. It is a well documented fact that your ancestors prior to 1946 have not used the term Macedonia when refering to their homeland, but instead said “Vardarska”. So what you think is legitimate, to use the term Macedonia (since you have been using it for the past 60 years) and wipe clean the slate of 2500 years of history and rewrite it, is in fact preposturous. Why don’t you show the world a single bit of written evidence prior to 1946 that proves youe ancestors identified themselves as Macedonians? The reason you canot do this is because even your language is a very recent concoction and no such evidence exists.

  7. 1.I already stated that using the same name isn’t rewriting history. We ended up using the name, because we ended up on a territory called Macedonia. That *isn’t* rewriting history, even if no use of the name was made, e.g. before 1946 in reference to those people.

    2.While it is not 1946, it is true that the forming of Macedonian nation started to happen in historical terms recently – around the end of 19th century, and it ended up “properly” with the creation of the republic after the WWII. But that doesn’t have anything to do with using the name, or rewriting the history. As I said, so it happened that those people was in specific circumstances, started differentiating themselves from the Bulgarians, Greeks or Serbs, and ended up being called and calling themselves Macedonians. Where is that “rewriting the history” there?

    3.Nobody is denying that Macedonia as territory is bigger than the territory of the Republic of Macedonia, which yes, territorially is called “Vardarska”, and distinguished from “Egejska” (the part of Macedonia in Greece) and “Pirinska” (the part of Macedonia in Bulgaria). But, I’ve never heard anybody calling themselves “Vardarec” or something similar.

    And just you don’t say that I avoided to answer your question about people using ‘Macedonians’ before 1946, you can check:
    “A Dictionary of Three languages – Macedonian, Albanian and Turkish” (Georgi Puleski in 1875).
    And this which I could find with the text translated on the net:
    “Macedonian Nationalism” and The self-determination of the Macedonians” (Krste Petkov Misirkov in 1925)

    Anyway, I hope this gets more civilized, and you don’t keep ignoring my answers, and repeating that we are on some mission to rewrite the history, just because we want to use the name as our parents and grandparents used. BTW, my grandparent was born before 1946 (1917 I think), and he also told me that his father also discussed how they are different from Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks.

  8. macedonas said

    I am truly sorry that I do not seem enough civilised to you. I suppose it is time now for you to give me a lecture on the term “civilised”. As for your sources, anyone reading them can easily see your objectives and understand our position. I quote : “We will fight with Greeks because they are our only historic and age old enemies.”
    I will now leave you so you can play with your wii console. Good night dear neighboor and aspiring NATO ally.Have a nice life.

  9. I used “civilized” because negating ones’ nation, language and history (as “short” it might be) is I think offensive.

    Anyway, that quote taken from historical document by people who were thinking about independence in those certain times, can’t be taken as any way to show the position we have towards Greece today. For sure there is some animosity because of the steps Greece has taken which really hurt our country like the economic embargo in the 90s, but I guess you know lot of people hurl into Greece on summer holidays, shop there etc… If we really felt that “Greeks are our enemies”, do you think that would happen? They probably also talked about Turks as enemies, does it mean that we now feel that Turks are our enemies? Neither of those.

    Thanks for the good wishes :)

  10. vagelis kosmas said

    You are Paionians but not macedonians, you are really a product of Titos’s politics, it’s very difficult to understand this because for so many years you have been raised in your schools with the false idea of big macedonian nation … there is not such nationality, the name should be used only for geographical region purposes

  11. Hi Vagelis,

    I’m afraid for that to be true Tito would have to go back in time from 1946. Because there are people like Пулески, Мисирков, Чуповски, and revolutionary organizations that seek establishing of Macedonia as separate entity before WWII (starting from the end of 19th century). It is true that communist party and Tito had big deal in the realization and recognition of this separate entity, but partisan movement in Macedonia was formed and took part in anti-fascistic war, with among other things realizing of the idea of forming independent republic.

    And I don’t know where this idea comes that we were raised in our schools with the idea of big Macedonian nation. What I tell you, that is what they taught us in schools, and what they teach the kids those days. (I know because my kid now goes to school). They are also thought the history of Macedonia as a region, along the history of Athens and Sparta, Iliric states etc.

    As far as I know it is generally accepted that we are Slavs in origin (and not Paionians), and that our ancestors came here around 600AD.

    And I still don’t get this problem with the name. One name can be used to name different entities. Why is that so problematic? The geographical region is called Macedonia, and is not same as Republic of Macedonia. Neither is Republic of Macedonia – ancient Macedonia. Neither is Macedonia, Ohio same as geographical region. If you are worried that somebody will mistake us for ancient Macedonians, we should probably give some announcement to the world, that we are not those people, and be done with it.

    • Thessalonikeus said

      Tanasije Giorgoski! You are probably live in Alaska somewhere and not in Skopje! Because if you would live in Skopje you would not talk about “your” slavic identity! Pseudomacedonism as a fascistic ideoly needs ancient Bukefalism and avoids anything slavic as the Devil the incense. Pseudomacedonism cannot accept its goals, actually is nothing, without the Ancient Propaganda. So, you must be either naive or you are mocking us (something, slyness I mean, characteristic of your people, the Crni-Bugari, I mean). So do not direct these kind of questions to us the Greeks and real Macedonians, but to your fascist governement!
      One think only: There is no space for two kind of Macedonians in ths Galaxy! So, insisting in your fascism amd your monkey clown insulting behaviour, insisting in voting Glupevski, you have only one choise left – and this for not so much longer – to chose the way you are going to die…

      • OK, I will guess that you are very young, so that your reason is still clouded with emotions, and you still look at the world in black and white. So, I won’t remove your comment which is very offensive and insulting. Maybe you are used to discuss those things with Macedonian teenagers on the forums – teenagers which are as lost as you, full of hatred as you are, and all that you do is just insult each other, mistaking your own value with the “greatness of the nation” to which you belong. But…, this is not something that I wish to do.

        So, just calm down, try to look and discuss things with people without prejudice. Or even better, go read some Plato or Aristotle, and don’t just be proud with the history of Greece, but try to get something from those great people. Greek or Macedonian or Slav or whatever… doesn’t count for much when the person doesn’t have any qualities.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: